Dave Turner at the 2011 Sea Otter Classic. Photo: Gary Boulanger

The machines coming out of Southern California-based Turner Bikes are consistently given high marks by magazine testers, and like many small bike companies, its founder and leader is paving the way. Dave Turner is a story teller, and I was lucky enough to grab his attention right before the Sea Otter Classic, to let him share some insight on how he got into cycling in the first place, why he believes in full suspension, and why Made in the USA matters.

Turner grew up the son of a miner in a mining town in the high desert called Lucerne Valley. For the few that were growing up there they mostly rode dirt bikes or BMX bikes for fun. The middle and high school were located almost 20 miles away in another town so team sports was not on most of their list of options, as the parents had to commit to a lot of long shuttles.    

BMX was starting to explode in the urban areas of the America, but out in Turner's isolated desert world, there wasn't much organized racing. Turner remembered a little track behind the fire station, made of decomposed granite, almost unrideable when dry, like a sand wash with bumps. Turner and his buddies would ride to each others’ houses, which in most cases was several miles from one to another, to hang out and build a jump, practice wheelies, and whatever trouble they could get into, pedaling around the back roads.

Dave, when did you graduate to mountain bikes?

A year after I left home a friend wanted my dirt bike, and at the time I was living like a ski bum in Vail and had no place or use for the Suzuki sitting home in my dad’s garage, so we traded for his Schwinn Sidewinder. It was not really a mountain bike, but an extremely overweight, 10-speed BMX bike with 26-inch wheels. It did not even have cantilevers, but blue anodized calipers front and rear like you would find on a BMX bike. Since all the committed Vail athletes were on road bikes all summer, I thought the Schwinn would do my legs some good for skiing, and at 44lbs I was right! This was in 1982 and to see a single mountain bike in the local bike shops was truly rare.

I had a lot of fun dragging that thing up the service roads in the valley and finding hiking trails and elk trails to ride through the woods, and could see no reason to spend huge money on a skinny tire bike that would limit me to the paved roads when I could be exploring high country double and single track. The next summer I bought a Specialized that weighed less than 30lbs and had much better cantilever brakes, which allowed me to start doing bigger rides back and forth of the mountains around Vail, I was now a mountain bike rider as I clipped off some pretty amazing rides (or so I thought).

The next summer a friend and I did a 2,800-mile tour on our mountain bikes, to do this we put some smaller tires and racks and bags on. I look back at that as the time I really 'bonded' with cycling, spending so much time on a bike in a short amount of time with so many great views and experiences with the bike, the freedom and connection with the sight and smells of the land I was passing through. When I returned to Vail after the tour, I saw an ad for the 1984 NORBA National Championships to be held in Eldora, Colorado, so some friends and I drove over to see what mountain bike racing looked like.

On our tour through Northern California we stopped at bike shops that had selections of mountain bikes made by Salsa, Ritchey, Cunningham, etc. that were very different than the basic bikes were riding. We saw full race bikes with skinny knobby tires and steeper angles and heard stories of racing mountain bikes on the famous courses. So with great expectations of pro bikes and unobtainable bits we made the trip to Eldora. 

It was a memorable race with roadie Andy Hampsten leading much of the event and NorCal mountain bike star Joe Murray running him down for the win, I was hooked! Racing in the dirt looked like a blast; little did I know how bad this kinda fun would hurt, and how much I would enjoy it.

When and where was your first bike race?

I left Vail when the resort closed and went to California to race mountain bikes the spring of 1985. At the time there was a five-race series sponsored by SunTour and I figured that to be a racer I had to get away from the snow and start racing as soon as possible. The first race of the series was at Bonelli Park, and was more like a cyclo-cross type course but still a cool first experience to line up with a bunch of mountain bikers and hear the word `GO!’ I still have the hard bound coffee table book that was one of my prizes, Winning Magazine’s season long overview of the 1983 Pro road races from Classics to the Worlds, with comments by Eddie Merckx.

I didn't even win and got the book and some gloves. Nowadays winners in most sport level races don't get shit. No t-shirt, no various and crappy parts swag from the area dealers cleaning out their slow selling items. Either the promoters are lazy and don't bother to bug the local dealers or dealers don't buy any more slow moving stuff?! Yeah, right! What happened to the days of getting a tire here and some grips there? Funky or not those prices always provided extra entertainment of barter and sell so that everyone ended up getting something more than a generic 'medal' for their efforts.

What bike did you ride that day?

I was riding a Specialized Stumpjumper Sport, gloss black with all clear anodized parts, very sharp! I had taken off the monstrous TriCross tires and put on some smaller Ritchey Quad somethings that looked faster in the shop.

Of course I had upgraded to toe clips and Binda laminated straps as that was what the sales guys said would not stretch when they got wet. At the time the only racers on 'race' bikes were top pros, most everyone else was still riding and racing these sluggish handling 'trail' bikes. Some guys of course had the money to have a custom race mountain bike built, but not many.

Many of the Pros were running double chain rings! Imagine that, what comes around goes around. Better buy some stock in Jordache jeans, they might be back...

Tell me about your professional racing career; include your successful peaks and frustrating valleys.

I turned pro for Marin Mountain Bikes in 1987, which was awesome as we were equipped with the superior titanium frames built by Merlin and sold under the Team Marin name. At that time aluminum was almost nonexistent and steel was king, so to have this super metal Ti flying machine was beyond cool, even the handle bar was Ti , which most riders of the day could not imagine how much less trail sting was taken by the bars instead of one’s hands.

As for peaks there were not as many as this young man had hoped for! I racked up a considerable amount of Top 10 results over the years when pro men’s fields were regularly 75-plus, with big races being 100-plus. My best ride ever was 6th at a National Championships, everything was right that day as my legs were perfect and my mind went into that zone where the tunnel was quiet and clear, with an almost detached feel to the bike with everything shifting and pedaling on autopilot leaving the mind to work out the details of the course and competitors.

In hind sight the frustrating part was not realizing I was training wrong, I remember showing up at major events and my legs just weren't there. Due to the semi constant state of overtraining I rarely did the intensity needed to improve at the rate other racers were. With rare exception my 'in season' form was always a little flat, but after some rest at the end of the season I would really feel the boost of strong legs, and I usually started the spring pretty well before the pressure of performing and excitement of racing bigger events most weekends would start to grind on me... woulda, coulda, shoulda!

In the late 1980s there was not as much known about periodization and heart rate monitor training as today, and I did not have a coach which could have helped shed some light on how I approached my training. One thing I have learned being in business for the last 17 years: if I’m not smart enough for the job, I hire someone to manage it.

How did you get involved with bike and suspension design?

The first step was hearing of this suspension fork that Greg Herbold was testing for a guy name Paul Turner (no relation). Growing up on a dirt bike I was open to the idea of suspension on a mountain bike; after all we were riding the same kinda terrain, so why not have some of the similar technology! Greg put me in touch with Paul, and I started riding and racing the proto Rock Shox.

Fast forward a couple years and there were some guys creating different rear suspension designs. I was racing for Mongoose at the time and I approached the boss about researching rear suspension, first for my own benefit as I knew that having rear suspension would have a big effect on traction, second as a racer. I was supposed to influence future designs and I could see that someday rear suspension would be a big deal. There was much discussion and even some sketching amongst a couple of us at Mongoose, but we realized we didn't know shit about suspension and I started thinking about who we could talk to.

I was vaguely familiar with the ATK brand of motorcycles and their unique way of using chain energy in combination with the suspension. I made a call and arranged the first meeting with the former founder of ATK motorcycles, Horst Leitner. Many trips to Laguna Beach and meetings later between Mongoose and AMP and we had a deal to make some prototypes. At the time Horst was making aftermarket chain torque control devices that would bolt onto the more popular dirt bikes and quads at the time. This allowed the rider to be able to really hammer the throttle in the roughest sections and the suspension would remain active. I thought that would make sense on a bicycle too, because I knew how hard it was to keep traction on the rear tire when trying to hammer a good gear and the rocks were loose or the terrain rough on a mountain bike.

I worked as the liaison between Mongoose for some time then switched to working for AMP in the shop in Laguna Beach. I was not really involved with design, just building parts in the shop. After working on the Mongoose and Specialized prototypes, and the ramping up of AMPs own bikes bringing the early ones to production I realized that what I wanted out of a mountain bike would not be happening working there. I left AMP Research to design my own frame, it was a crazy move, I had only been married a few months, my wife was pregnant and I was unemployed! I started drawing my own design, which would later be called the Burner, and got a job part time at a local bike shop to help pay the bills. I sold extraneous stuff and borrowed money from family once I got to the prototype and early production stage.

Some of my early goals were to design a suspension that would work with the small riders as well as the tallest without requiring different rear end tooling and inventory. That is where the rocker design with the low shock came from, one of my friends from the racing days was Martha Kennedy and she rode a small, knowing this that set the top tube low and I worked around it.

You introduced the Turner Burner in 1994. How was it received by customers and dealers?

Wow, that was a long time ago. At the time there was a rapidly growing selection of suspension bikes on the market, nothing like today of course, but there were lots of options for the early adopters. But there were not very many good ones, frame flex was a problem with most and general function was grim, and pivot systems were less than ideal with many only lasting a few months.

With my background in racing I tried to create the kinda stiffness that was available on a hardtail and offer a suspension design that worked all the time so that the added weight of suspension (over a hardtail) was utilized during the whole ride. My sealed pivots with grease fittings was rather industrial to some but they would last for years, and I knew that not everyone would be riding their bikes in the dust of the south west.

When riders and dealers started figuring this out we started seeing some growth. This basic design criteria seemed to have struck a chord with many riders and helped get the company growing.

The early 1990s were heady times for the bike industry. Everything was innovative, from bar-ends to tires and saddles, but full suspension bike took several years to gain acceptance. What kept you in pursuit of the perfect bike?

I wanted the perfect bike for myself, and I am never satisfied with my work! When it comes down to designing frames I’m always striving for the ultimate tool for each targeted use. Through the '90s the riders started diverging in their frame design needs and that required me to focus on one aspect of the sport at a time. So for a time I would suit up and race and train as a downhiller, talking to downhill racers and living in their world in the research of putting together a top bike for that that rider group.

This started with the first production downhill race bike in the world, the Afterburner in 1996. Conversely as some demanded lighter designs for cross-country racing on full suspension I would put the Lycra back on get my head into that type of riding, starting with the development of the Stinger, then a few years later the Nitrous. Since I was no longer a super fit XC racer the trail bikes that make up the core of my business were really easy to develop! I just rode my bike and talked to riders on the trail, wandering around for hours on weekends and put that style of bike into production, the primary direction there has been more travel and stability for rougher terrain.

Turner Bikes are made in the U.S., a claim made by many in the 1990s. The number of American bike companies making frames in the U.S. has shrunk considerably. How do you do it, and why do you do it?

How? We have been working with Sapa in Portland Oregon for many years. They are an ISO compliant facility with top level people working there, from the head of engineering to skilled manufacturing engineers and machine operators just a couple hours by plane up the coast. Really a great operation, at one time they were producing thousands of bicycle frames a year for Specialized, Schwinn, Santa Cruz and lots of little companies in America and Europe. When working with a great group of people it makes the challenges of production surmountable.

Why have I struggled to make frames in the USA when almost everyone in every other industry has left? First and foremost is to support the American worker. Growing up without a lot of money, good purchases meant a lot to my folks, and at the time most of the best was ‘Made in USA’.

So when I started Turner Bikes there was no doubt my frames would be made here. At the time ‘Made in USA’ quality and attention to detail was superior to the imports, which also made my choice easy. Over the years I looked at all the people that had a hand on building my bikes and considered them neighbors that our children would go through school together and our combined tax base and votes and energy would create the best place for our kids to do the same for the next generation.

But in the last few years I have lost more faith in the American buyer than the American worker, I know that is really one in the same, but sadly it seems we are not willing to spend the extra to support our 'neighbors' anymore and the fast food mentality has come all the way to the smallest corners of the local bike shop. Nothing worthwhile is ever easy, but it can be even tougher when something like ‘Made in USA’, which was a big part of my business model, is now viewed as a non issue by an increasing amount of customers.

The Turner DHR

The bike industry has made carbon fiber the hot frame and component material these days. Turner bikes are consistently rated highly magazine's bike tests, but are made with aluminum. Do you ever feel like your company is behind the times?

Uh, we might not be the only company making only metal bikes, but the number of us doing so has certainly shrunk! The consistently good reviews over the years on our alloy bikes makes me happy, and this I attribute to the whole design package being more important than any individual line item like weight, head angle, bottom bracket height, etc.

But the truth is more and more customers, from international distributors to individual riders, are demanding carbon. Since the riding public demands, it we will certainly do our best to provide the products they want, but the cost of tooling is a formidable challenge. That said we are working on our first carbon frame right now. There is no time-line to the project as I really want it to be perfect, so when it’s done it’s done.

Tell me, in fine detail, about the bikes you're riding most these days.

A Ridley Excalibur carbon road bike with SRAM Red, rolling on S30 AL Race wheels and Continental GP4000 tires, just under 16lbs. The mountain biking immediately around Murrieta sucks, so most of my rides are on the road during the week.

The mountain bike I ride the most? Right now the Flux, but that could change in a couple weeks! Right now I have been wearing lycra and XC racing on weekends with my wife and one of my sons. I find it hard to believe that my second child is now riding a medium size Turner Bike! He started high school this year and is participating in the SoCal division of the NICA racing series. This has brought me around to some more XC type riding and racing, with us participating in some of the Southridge Winter Series races and the Kenda Cups. So far he is my only kid to show any interest in riding a bicycle a lot, not a real good reflection of my parental influence, but if I can get my daughter who is in middle school to race for the high school team in a couple years I will be extremely happy.

Dave’s Turner:

• 2011 Flux (medium, black anodized)
• 120mm travel SID RLT Ti fork
• SRAM XX drivetrain with 175mm cranks
• Rotor chainrings, 27/39 tooth double
• Shimano XTR clipless pedals
• DT Swiss 240 hubs with Revolution spokes laced to ENVE carbon UST rims
• Continental Race King 2.2 tires front and rear with Stan’s NoTubes sealant
• Formula R-1 brakes, 160mm rotors front & rear
• SDG seat with Ti rails
• Easton carbon seat post
• Easton carbon flat bar, 700mm wide
• Easton alloy stem, 100mm long
• ESI  silicone grips, great cush for old hands
• Cane Creek headset

The bike is 23.8 lbs, ready to race, with the pretty big tires this thing goes through the rocks really well for a frame with only a 105mm of rear wheel travel.

Describe a perfect day in the saddle.

South Lake Tahoe, start climbing from our friends house in the Meyers area, up to the top of Armstrong Pass, turn right and ride the Tahoe Rim Trail all the way to Big Meadow, then ride down the Christmas Valley trail, or, if not feeling it that day, descend Toads from the top of the ridge. Ride back to their house and eat a big lunch!

The Turner Bikes tent at Sea Otter was hustling and bustling, as usual. After our chat, I rolled away on my bike, as a grinning Dave Turner shook hands with another prospective customer.